Byron Young

[Fluke]

Byron Young deserves credit for appearing on your radio show. That being said, I was somewhat disappointed with a lot of his answers. There were too many, "I don't knows". We're thinking about it. It all depends on...." etc. In addition, I believe there were several mistatements. Every poll I've seen, favored 2 stripers. I can't believe no one asked for it. He never justified the 40% increase of stripers for the Comms. He never addressed the 60-40 allocation of fluke to the Comms. His justification for a 14" fluke for the Comms. wasn't acceptable. He stated that the Comms could have their season cut short. That would happen if they exceeded their 60%. Duh!!!! In affect, the closest he came to addressing our disatifaction was "Maybe"
I guess I would say he addressed your questions the way I expected. The man has a job to do. Too bad we're adversely effected by it.:!: :!: :!: :!:

[RJ]

True and they are very good at dancing as well. It is time to start putting real pressure on them for fluke in 2004 and I wil have him or his boss back next month as well. ONly so much we can do in a half hour, which is a good amount of time to spend on an interview. I thought the show went well and if you read between the lines, which I hate, he gave you a few answers if you searched for them. I had so much more to go over...I wil have to get him back.

I was hoping for many more phone calls, but therin lies the problems. The rec's are apathetic and do not take this stuff seriously enough, which is why folks you and me who understand are outraged by their apathy and the results we get form it!

[Fluke]

RJ- In a sense, I feel a degree of sympathy for Byron Young. It isn't easy, dodging the bullets. He deserves credit facing the firing squad. I would like to believe, being the #2 man, that's he's kept out of the loop. In the final analysis, it serves no purpose to get on his case. Our problems have to be directed to a higher authority. Incidently, I wrote 3 emails to 3 different DEC people. I only receivewd 1 reply. The only compensation is, Maybe the flounder will bite. :) :)

[LkyLindy]

Guys- I was out of town and missed yesterdays show:!: However I'm afraid it doesn't matter what Mr. Young said or didn't say.This is because I'm in the process of reading Steve Sloans book" Ocean Bankruptcy" and basically if what he says is true the Dept. of Interior,Noaa.NMFS. DEC etc. have a set agenda based on lobby pressure and politics and just outright lie and fabricate answers that are selfserving.They don't seem to care What RECs want and are totally in the pockets of the Comms and the Fishing Food Industries and fat cat "OLD BOY" networks.It is a totally frustrating situation and unless the Public at large gets involved -the Recs are just"spoiled slackers crying for a fun sport" while the "hard working Comms are the salt of the earth"-We are totally SCREWED!!!
By the way -Is Steve Sloan a MODERATOR here or not??-His credentials are tremendous and he can really shed light on the issue of conservation and RECS vs COMMS.His input would make this forum a world class diseminator of information:confused: :confused:

[RJ]

Easy on Steve as he is traveling doing what he does. Currently he is San Fran visinting a long life friend with Alzheimer's! We made him a moderator so he has access to functions of this forum many but administrators do not have and I am sure when his schedule frees him up he will be shedding light. His book says it all.

[addict]

I posted my orig reply as a new topic

[Fluke]

RJ- It wasn't my intent to dump on Steve. He comes across as a creative thinker and a fund of information. His input would be an asset to all of us winers.:crying:

[RJ]

I spent today going over the radio interview from Saturday for you folks and putting it into an article. It wil be inthe South Bay newspaper in a week or so, but will let you folks have first crack at it. Here it is:

Many of you readers tuned into last week’s radio show (3/22) in which I interviewed Byron Young of the DEC. Byron is 2nd chief of Marine Fish and Crustacean section and is responsible for making and carrying out fishery regulation policies for the state marine waters in our area. If you heard the interview you know we touched on as many questions as we could in the half hour Mr. Young spent with us on the air. What did we learn? Not much when you look at the whole picture as he was very non-committal on fluke and bass regulations, but if we read between the lines we did learn some valuable info. As for fluke…'

Why is the fluke fishery divided 60% commercial and 40% recreational? This split was devised by the federal government and the ASMFC board. There will be no closed season on the fluke and they are working on getting the season opened earlier. The full regulatory package has been published in the State Register and this is a normal rule-making package required by law to run a 45-day public comment period. Fluke scup and striped bass opening dates will be done on an “emergency” basis so they can get all three opened earlier than normal.

When asked if the state closes down commercial fluke fishing depending on current catches and projected overages, the answer was YES! I asked why can’t the same be done for recreational fluking. This way if we are under target, the DEC can lower the size limit so we can catch our quota. His reply was we don't have trip level reporting from the rec’s as do from commercial fishermen. If we did, each recreational angler would have to send the DEC a report on his day’s activity. It can be done, but it would be expensive. I said I have no problem calling after each day’s trip to give this info. I would submit here…a saltwater license might cover this? Hmmm…I wonder and I should have asked him.

A question from Bob in Lynbrook asked why commercial anglers catch 14-inch fluke and we have to catch a 17 incher! Byron’s answer was they’re currently reviewing this and may be increasing the commercial size limit. The DEC recognizes this problem and are trying to get all the size limits to be the same as commercials. When I asked if raising the commercial size limits on fluke would allow the DEC lower the size limits on the rec’s he did say it was possible! The 2002 year class of juvenile fluke was not nearly as good as it was the consecutive years prior. He also said we’re about a year away from lowering size limits on fluke!

When asked why the recreational effort spent fishing and all involved with it are not accounted for by the state and federal governments in dollars, only as effort, but the commercial effort is put into $$$, he replied that Sea Grant just did a study showing the NY area recreational fishery is over a billion dollars for the marine industry and over several billions of dollars when you include freshwater. This covers everything from delis to gas to restaurants and everything.

When I suggested the commercial fishery was only 300 million, he tried to play it off that the difference wasn’t that large because the commercial fishing puts dollars in X amount of vessels, but does increase when you add the restaurants as well and that is not taken into account when they add these numbers up, but admitted the difference still favors the recreational anglers!

We did learn the state does not transfer “uncaught” percentages of unused quotas from one user group to another as the federal government does. This was good to hear, but they do receive transfers from other states who do not fill their quota. Example, if Jersey commercial fluke fishermen don't reach their quota, they will transfer it over to NY State for our commercial anglers. Why can’t they let the rec’s and commercials split this transfer? He had no real answer on that one other than to say we reach our quote just about every year so we don't need more. When put on the spot to give us his best answer to the fluke reg’s, he said it will be seven (7) fish at 17 inches and it looks like there’s a good chance the season will open April 15 or the day or two after with the emergency regulations getting that done.

Mr. Young said numbers now support going to 15 bluefish per man. When I asked why don't we do it then, his response was “no one has asked for it and why would someone need 15 bluefish.” My answer to that was, “why must we have to ask for everything? If it’s allowed by the biomass numbers and we can do it, just give up the opportunity. (Same thing with the phone company, they have a better plan for you, but why hell don’t they call you and tell you!) We’re not catching that many anyway. I also said it was not the DEC’s responsibility to assume why someone would need or want 15 bluefish. If someone does and we’re allowed to than we should be able to do so without explaining our reasons to the DEC!

He then brought up we’re allowed to go to two striped bass per man. Every time they bring it up, recreational anglers say they don't want it. I say B.S. because the only ones that don't want it are what I call tree-hugging fishermen who want to throw back everything they can. Your so-called representatives on the Marine Resources Advisory Council here on Long Island are saying that’s what you want! No one ever asked me what I want! If you want two striped bass you have to go and ask for it by attending these meetings or writing a letter for the record to the DEC stating you want two (2) striped bass per man!

The commercial’s got a 43% pay hike with their increase in striped bass harvest. I asked Byron if this measly three-week early opening period was our increase and he said absolutely not. We could have gone year round with striped like the other species, but NY State law written by the NY State Legislature puts the ECL (environmental conservation law) for the striped bass season from April 15th to December 15th. It has been May because of the reduction in harvest required over the years.

The DEC usually reaches out to anglers to get a reaction then decide on seasons and limits. This year they’re going to be more proactive to clubs and even those anglers not members of organizations and associations to get action and reaction to the season for bass and the one or two fish per man after they’ve established the season…and then see where anglers want to go with it.

It is not easier to change bass reg’s than other species as previously rumored. They all take legislative change, getting a member of the House and the Senate to put it forward and then have the Governor approve and sign it once on his desk. Byron also said the DEC does NOT give away fish like the second fish we’re allowed if we do not use it. In fact if the commercials do NOT reach their quote this year or any year, they do NOT get to carry the unused portion over to the next year. If they do go over, they DO get penalized and that overage is taken away from their following year’s quota.

[Fluke]

RJ- Your article is very good and points out the lack of information we got from Byron Young. As an example, we know the split of fluke is 40/60. We know who is responsible. The question is why. The open season is a joke and is made to appear that the DEC is giving the Recs. something. In reality, we're getting nothing. While there is an ocassional fluke caught in Nov., most boats stop fishing fluke in the middle of Oct. because the numbers don't warrant fishing for them. I don't take much comfort knowing that I'll be able to fluke fish in Jan. and Feb.
The 45 day "public comment" period has not or will not change any of the DEC's rulings. It never has in the past, primarily because it's fragmented.
He stated that the Comm. fluke fishery gets closed down due to overages. Wow! That means they can't get 70% of the TAL and I'm sure the Comms call the DEC notifying them that they have their limit.
Here's something else to consider. New Jersey is allowed 1,000,000 more fluke than N.Y. This based on, supposedly more fishermen, more trips and historical figures. I guess this goes back to the days when the Indians were reporting their catch.
I don't want to get into the Striper Regs. That's another joke.
But, I'll bet you a cup of coffee, that the fluke season doesn't open until May. :beer: :beer: :beer:

[surfbeater]

I've long been confused on how rec's #'s are arrived at, and in that light, Mr. Young's answers seem to contradict each other:

...."His reply was we don't have trip level reporting from the rec’s as do from commercial fishermen. If we did, each recreational angler would have to send the DEC a report on his day’s activity."....

...."Why can’t they let the rec’s and commercials split this transfer? He had no real answer on that one other than to say we reach our quote just about every year so we don't need more ."....

How does he know that we reach our quotas if none of us report our catches? How the heck does the ASMFC, and NYSDEC know what we've caught, and what to allocate us? The CCA (tree huggers?) says that the rec harvest of Stripers is about 60-70% of the total harvest, but how reliable is that number?

[Fluke]

surfbeater- In all probability, everything you said is true. It's a joke whenthe DEC and the ASMFC sets regulations on historical values, when they have no actual numbers to work with.
They can't establish Rec. catches and then have to assume the number they get from Comms are legitimate. This is not to say that all Comms are dishonest. It's all a game and someday, we'll learn how to play.

[Rockfish]

The system is a sham. The comms actually catch and reach their limits, when their tags are filled they target something else. The recs are assumed to be catching their limits and therefore filling their quotas. On paper it looks reasonable.
We all know however that we are not limiting out each trip, and cannot fill our tags next time, since we have none. If you think its an accident that the system is inequitable, think again.
As long as we are not paying a license fee, we will never get a fair shake from DEC. This year they told us we didn't ask for a second fish, next year they'll say the stocks are down. As far as they are concerned we are catching our limits every day.
Dan
in Massapequa

[Fluke]

Rockfish- You're 100% right. In principle I'm against licensing. All that does is create another beaurocracy that will suck up the $$$ designated for other purposes. In the position we're in, we might be better off if we did license saltwater fishermen. It would give N.Y. a lttle more equity with N.J. The existing system has to be dumped and a new format instituted with equal representation. How about this. NO MORE LOBYISTS

[Rockfish]

Nobody wants to pay another fee to create another beaurocracy which cannot be controlled. The problem is that the beaurocracy has already been created and is being controlled in favor of those who are paying for it. If we were buying licences we would be in a better position to fight for our rights, and our numbers would be known (documented). In effect we would be buying our fish the way the comms do. Hopfully our fees would be used for research and enforcement and other related activities all for the good of the resource. I also believe the licensed sportfisherman should have the responsibility to report his catch the way the comms do, and this would help the situation greatly. And as a licensed sportfisherman I would expect to be notified of any public hearings and or discusions.
If instituted properly, a salt water license could be a very good thing for the sportfisherman and the resource.
Dan
in Massapequa
;)

[surfbeater]

I agree in concept with a saltwater license, if for no other reason, so that our numbers can be counted by the politicians that oversee the marine fisheries. I think it would be a royal pain in the butt though to report our catches. I think that the implementation of such would rely on the honor system, so any statistics from it would be flawed.

I like your idea Rockfish, that as licensed sportsmen we should be notified of any public hearings and or discussions. Anyone who's read my 2 cents worth before in these forums know how I feel about enforcement, and that license fees should be used to help enhance that effort locally.

Fluke, there are lobbyists who are advocates for each side of an issue. Some represent the comms, some the recs. If you check out who attends the ASMFC meetings you'll see that there aren't too many voices on our side. Also, I think I've heard it said on RJ's show, that some of the so called rec advocates that do attend the hearings are actually comms (wolves in sheep’s clothing).

The politicians might not (ever) know exactly how many fish we catch, but if we get licensed they will know how many of us there are, and remember us in November.

[Fluke]

As I said previously, I have only 1 objection to licensing. I don't want to find another way to buy a $50 toilet seat. If licensing could achieve its designed goal, I'm all for it. Over the course of time, something has been lost in the translation. All these governing bodies are supposed to be dealing with CONSERVATION.
Maybe licensing would promote a total reorganization. It remains to be seen.