night tides

[cowkiller]

I have not read the book yet , but some people tell me that the fisherman this book is writen about claims to have caught 2,500 striped bass over thirty pounds and offically weighed in. Lets do the math ,being bass season runs from May8-december15 It is impossible, to catch and weigh in that many fish in one season. And what is he doing with two bass over his shoulder when you are only allowed one. And why is he photographed on the goose creek bridge on wantaugh parkway when bridge fishing is totally illegal. Sounds fishy to me.:confused:

[fundyman]

Cowkiller...

remember that Billy fishes not only from the beach but from bridges and the boat.. not all of his fish are shore caught... although he has more than I or most people will ever catch off the shore (big ones too)...

he doesnt claim to have 2,500 fish over 30 lbs weighed in ( I dont fish as hard as him and in my log book, I caught over 1,300 fish this year. and i dont fish on a boat.. granted mine werent all keeper sized but still im sure you get the point) .. he claims to have caught that many fish in a season.. and, I for one, believe him.. his season doesnt run from may 8th until 12/15, his is much longer (like the beginning of march thru xmas)

I have had the ultimate pleasure to fish with him on occasion and he is the real deal.. it isnt uncommon for him to catch 40-50 big fish off the boat a tide... he stays out for days on end both tides if there is a good bite and he doesnt quit...

as for the having two fish over his back in the pic, the other fish is the authors (Mike Cinquenami). so, there are the people for the two fish...It was taking to make a more interesting photo

Bridge fishing is illegal, but only if you get caught. .and, the majority of the fish he mentions in the book were caught when bridge fishing was legal...In the NY surf fishing interclub tournament, bridge fishing isnt illegal, so why should he be reprimanded for it?

so, to sum up, before you assume that something "smells fishy"... maybe read the book and form youre own opinions...

I give it a thumbs up!!

[RJ]

I never remember bridge fishing being legal except in Queens onthe MP and CB bridges, but since 9/11 I have heard they have limited or stopped on both?

As long as I can remember it has been illegal and cow is right. The numbers do not add up. I rememebr standing in the store with cow and Billy and Bill telling us he caught 2,500 fish over 30 pounds in one season, 1,500 over 40 pounds the same season and something like 5000 bass in this same season combined...and he actually believes he did it!:confused:

[cowkiller]

fundy, wow you are good .You claim to have caught 1,300 bass this year that breaks down to 28 fish a day 365 days in a year . You should write a book.

[LkyLindy]

sorry Cow-
but 1300 fish boils down to 3.56 fish over the year.

Actually 8 months 240 days would be5.41 fish a day.I guess its doable but man thats a lot a fishing:crazy:

[RJ]

What if you miss a day or two because of weather, storms, wife's b'day ..or and remember work? AND oh...what if...heaven forbid... you actually get skunked like the rest of us once in a while?

Even if you could fish and the bite was on in Little Neck Bay say around April 15 and you fished all the way to Dec. 25, that would be appox 254 fishing days. Between work, school maybe, any of the above mentioned reasons one might miss a day or fish one day and not catch a fish...let's say take away another week (7 days) we now have 247 fishing days..it comes to 5.26 fish per day.

Now we have the author of the book who says he caught 2,500...30 pounders! 10.12 fish per day and all 30 pounders.

Now imagine he caught 1,500 40 pounders, combine that with the 2,500 30 pounders and you have 4,000 fish all over 30 pounds in 247 days of fishing. That's slightly more than 16 fish per day and ALL over 30 pounds!

Now break it down to 10 hours of fishing per day that's nearly 2 fish per hour all over 30 pounds 247 consecutive days.

Now before anybody gets on me...I have known this author for 30 years and played pool and foosball with him through the 70's and believe me...he is a sweetheart, a heck of a guy and an olympic caliber pool player and foosball powerhouse! We had many great games and laughs playing. He taugh me much onthe pool table just watching him and playing against him.

He is a very likable guy and no one can say anything bad about the guy because he is so friendly, but those are some incredible numbers for FM with 1,300 but especially for the author with 4,000 fish and add to that all the shorts and fish uner 30 pounds caught...10,000 fish in a season maybe?:) I would hate to think about the 12% delayed mortality of bait fishing:(

[Hankey]

COWKILLER AND RJ

Why do your comments about Night Tides come across as Sour Grapes?????????? What if those are actual numbers? I know the guy is a fantastic big fish catcher that's been at it for 90% of his lifetime. That seems to be the problem, guy catches big fish, all of the sudden people claim he's a lier. Doesn't seem fair. I've seen his photo's at various seminars and it's incredible, photo's don't lie. Guy's in the business should'nt bash each other...not good PR.
Just my .02

Hankey:mad:

[RJ]

Hankey, I am not bashing or caling anybody a liar! :!: Actually Lindy and cow bring up a very good point for FM who only caught 1,300 fish! I never even thought about the numbers till they brought it up, so at 6:30 a.m. I did a little figuring...what's the problem?

I and a few others have pointed out it takes a great effort to accomplish what he has...by putting forth some numbers that he would have had to put up to make it happen. I also say I know and like the aurthor as a person. So what is the problem?:confused:

What is the big deal?

[LkyLindy]

Before the members get their HANKEYS out:laugh: I have some ENRON stock I'd like to sell:p

[Hankey]

Rich..you're right , it is ok to look at the numbers and play the math game. I guess that is a natural response to incredible numbers. My point is "why speculate". Are the numbers that incredible??? Do you or cowkiller have reason to question it? .....My response to cowkillers post should have been directly made to him. It's obvious (for some unknown reason) that there is some animosity toward Bill from the tone of Cowkillers post. Cowkiller, why don't you just read the book? It's not difficult to get.

Hankey

[RJ]

Lindy, I just PM'd you.

[RJ]

Yes I thought they are incredible didn't you? You never speculated at all on this? I think they border on nearly impossible if you want to know the truth...BUT I did not say he didn't do it did I?:confused:

Have you thought about the possibility of catching 4,000 stripers between 30 and 40 pounds...in 240 or so days?

[Hankey]

Originally posted by lkylindy
Before the members get their HANKEYS out:laugh: I have some ENRON stock I'd like to sell:p

I don't get it:confused:

Hank

[RJ]

Me either...the hankey part was actually pretty good, but I don't get the Enron bit.

[Hankey]

...and he actually believes he did it!:confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

BUT I did not say he didn't do it did I?

RJ.....You're right again........You didn't say he didn't do it.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Hank

[No Problem]

Hey, I once caught 4,000 fish in a season but I don't think dip netting for spearing off Magnolia Pier really counts.

I have no doubt that the Night Tides author is an incredible fisherman and I'm inspired to read the book but let's all face it -- its just another fish story.

[RJ]

maybe controversy sells books better than having your book mentioned as part of Oprah's Book club:D

[LkyLindy]

Enron-
you know the company that was raped and pillaged by its officers and all the shareholders lost their life savings to those SOB's-
ok I'll make it easier for you

If those Big fish numbers sound reasonable to you-I'd like to sell you shares in a Bridge to Brooklyn-Kapeesh????

Man,it's hard to be clever around here-Can't get no respect(tie pull)


Oh you know like Rodney Dangerfield-Don't you dare say you never heard of him:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[BigBrewDude]

Take my wife, please!

[Stoker1]

This past fall, as great as it was;) , I was happy if a got one schoolie per outing!

[LkyLindy]

Stoker-
Thats a start -only 2499 to go-when you're ready to write YOUR book let me know.I can be your agent:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Stoker1]

Ikylindy, you're in, I'll let you know when I hit 2,499 for this year so we can work the contract out right before 2,500, should be around Thanksgiving:)

[THEKID]

Interesting back and forth....

All I can say is that 1,300 fish in a year is not all that unbelieveable. Heck, I had 2 75+ fish days this past year. 5 50+ fish days. Was I the only one catching? Was I picking them off with stealth and know-how? Hell no. Most of those fish came in blitz conditions. But then there were plenty of nights where I had 8 and 10 fish within a 6-8 hr span. And even others still when I was skunked.

Fundy's numbers are great. No doubt about it. He shouldn't be questioned, though, because such numbers are doable. There are plenty of hard working fishermen (and trust me, you have to be hardworking in order to land that many) that posted similar numbers this past season.

If people have issues with Billy's book, then so be it. But doesn't it deserve a chance before it's bashed??? Not to sound cliche, but "you can't judge a book by its cover." Can you?

I may just pick up a copy.

[RJ]

Kid are you saying you had 550 fish days and 275 fish days? I fished some of the blitzs in Montauk this past October where I and many others caught fish on just about every cast we made over the course of the day and while I lost count as to how many fish I caught over 5 hours or more...there was no way in heck they approached 275 fish not to mention 550:confused:

[Rockfish]

Rich,
Its not impossible if he's using a gill net.
Dan
in Massapequa

[THEKID]

Originally posted by RJ
Kid are you saying you had 550 fish days and 275 fish days? I fished some of the blitzs in Montauk this past October where I and many others caught fish on just about every cast we made over the course of the day and while I lost count as to how many fish I caught over 5 hours or more...there was no way in heck they approached 275 fish not to mention 550:confused:

Let me rephrase:

This past Fall I had two days where I caught over 75 fish. Likewise, I had five days in which I caught over 50 fish.

Not 275 and 550 respectively.... :laugh:

[RJ]

I thought it was either that or 2.75 & 5.50 fish per hour numbers on a few days. I knew you were a mere mortal like the rest of usl!:D

[LkyLindy]

Kid-

Were all those fish OVER 30 Lbs.-Thats the part that sounds "fishy" :p

[RJ]

After reading our forums, the author was kind enough to send me a copy of the book. I will try to read it over the weekend and post my"Book Report" on Monday

[BillyH]

I think you guys are missing the point. It is avery good wintertime alternate to standing on the beach. He's alocal guy fishing the same beaches as we all do and mentions a lot of places and things we can all ID with. I finished it in a day and will probably read it again before spring. Read it and enjoy

[BassSport]

Originally posted by cowkiller
I have not read the book yet , but some people tell me that the fisherman this book is writen about claims to have caught 2,500 striped bass over thirty pounds and offically weighed in. Lets do the math ,being bass season runs from May8-december15 It is impossible, to catch and weigh in that many fish in one season. And what is he doing with two bass over his shoulder when you are only allowed one. And why is he photographed on the goose creek bridge on wantaugh parkway when bridge fishing is totally illegal. Sounds fishy to me.:confused:

Boy, it is a sad day when a fellow whose credibility is questionalble at best, can offer constructive commentary on a book he has not read. Having said that let me put aside the fact that you question the catch numbers quoted in Night Tides. More importantly, you also go out of your way to insult your readership by stating it is beyond your belief that there are devoted fisherman out there who can employ both the time and acquired skills to catch numbers exceeding 1300 stripers a year by themselves.

Personally, I won't take what you said as offensive because it only illustrates to me and the rest of the readers how short you fall from being the class fisherman you acclaim to be. But I will apologize on your behalf to all the readers out there whose integrity with respect to numbers of fish caught are questioned by you.

Funny, the very same person you question once said to me, "Its the big fish in a little pond, whose ego is so big, who believes nobody can possibly catch better than they do. They're the ones who will bad mouth you the most." So what do you say Joe, "CREDIBILTY" is a very powerful word which also takes into account "CHARACTER." Maybe its time we can get your character and credibility to stand up for a change.

By the way before I forget and for the record, your comment "why is he photographed on the goose creek bridge on the wantaugh parkway when bridge fishing is totally illegal", made no sense to me.

Joe, when was fishing the bridges ever considered legal. Here is something you should remember, you too fished the bridges. Only now you say it is illegal to do so and you condemn that type of fishing! So tell me something, was it not illegal back then when you did the very same thing?

I fished with Billy for fifteen years, and I have known you basically for the same amount of time. I can vouch for what he has done, yet I can't say the same for you.

Call it Joe, its put up, or shut up time. I am sure the Greek will not have a problem meeting your challenge!

Geoff :rolleyes:

[Johnny B]

Rich, after all these posts I just had to get the book and read it. I have to say I’m amazed that you and cowkiller could get info so inaccurate. On page 15 it clearly states 2500 bass a year over 20 lbs not 30 lbs like Joe said. Big difference. The book states his best year was 57 fish over 40 lbs not 1500 which you said (that’s absolutely ridiculous) I felt you have always played fair but this time you should have read the book first. Commenting on a book you never read puts you in the position of assuming, and you know what that does… There’s a famous quote for errors like this “Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion”.

[RJ]

We did not get this info inaccurate! The subject told us exactly what I wrote in my post...while standing in the tackle shop with us. I have always played fair and thanks for noticing that, but perhaps the subject made the mistake that day when he told us what he told us.

Ask cowkiller...he will verify the story 110%! Plus he told us that he did it in one season not since 1970.

The author sent me the book and I am on page 100 and have highlighted a couple of things so far I will comment on at a later date.

I will post my book report probably Monday or Tuesday :D

[Wild Duck]

RJ

"....we all know there's alot of heavy competetion in the game the fishing for real BIG stripers, so I can understand whne some of the locals feel they have to blow off steam when it comes to questioning the numbers of a guy like BTG in a book like "Night Tides". So it doesn't suprise me all that much when the facts get twisted around by guys who admit they haven't read the book and end up mis-quoting things in a way that makes the book read like science fiction.
Let's face it, most of the time it's easier to see what we want to see instead of what really may be there. Instead of fueling the fire with statements that appear to backing up the errors made by some of the other guys, shouldn't you be telling them to at least get their facts straight before jumping in?

BTW - Have you read it yet?

One more thing........(From South Bay News 2/12/2003)
Striped Bass & More Fluke and Porgy News

"The lack of knowledge of these web sites really is amazing, but more importantly very disappointing. Message Board type-sites allow the public to post their own comments and what they've "heard" through the grapevine."

Sound familiar......BTW ..Good show today

Wild Duck-----------Over and out....:D :D :beer:

[RJ]

I am in the middle of band practice and will comment on this later tonight!!

[GradyWhite]

you can really tell that cabin fever has set in when we all start arguing about fishing!

[GradyWhite]

by the way, if anyone was at the boat show today, i was the one with the screaming 3 year old who didn't want to leave. i hope all the sales reps didn't mind when my kid was turning on all the bilge blowers! :D

[cowkiller]

Lets get one thing straight. I am not bad mouthing anyone on their fishing skills. I made a comment about how many fish over 30# were taken in one year. As far as the bridge fishing comment i dont condem it at all geoff. I just stated that it is illegal and wondered how they cuold put a picture of it on a book. I know Billy a long time as well . I remember talking with him for hours over a cup of coffee at skippys bait and tackle. I am not denying that he is a great fisherman and I know dam well he puts his time in.I have nothing bad to say about the man. My post was strickly written on the numbers of fish , there is nothing wrong with that.And as far as my credability goes , it doesnt matter to anyone else but me. nice to hear from you geoff maybee see you on the water this year.:beer:

[cowkiller]

why is my credibility questionable???? I have taken Nine (9) bass over fifty pounds never breaking the sixty(60lb)class.I caught my ninth(9)50 wich weighed 50 lbs on Bay parks scales on 11/17/02.And I also dont claim to be a class fisherman.Ive fished for bass on the Beach, Bridge, and Boat and along the marshes. I know it all too well.You know me geoff and i dont understand why you say what you say. And whats this put up or shut up thing you post?. I have nothing against billy. Seems like you want to start something!!.All my big fish were weighed in legit and have weigh in slips and photos to prove it. Dont know why your a sorry camper. As far as Billy goes Catch That World record!!!!!

[RJ]

Originally posted by GradyWhite
by the way, if anyone was at the boat show today, i was the one with the screaming 3 year old who didn't want to leave. i hope all the sales reps didn't mind when my kid was turning on all the bilge blowers! :D

That's a good one...hahahahaha:D The boat dealers are just crazy and love the fact kids under 6 get in free at the Coliseum boat show!:D :D :D

[RJ]

Originally posted by Wild Duck
RJ

"....So it doesn't suprise me all that much when the facts get twisted around by guys who admit they haven't read the book and end up mis-quoting things in a way that makes the book read like science fiction.

I did NOT twist the facts around. I was in the store with Joe G & BTG when he said it! We asked him repeatedly if what he said is what he meant and he confirmed it three (3) times! We are not misquoting the book because we haven't read the book and when he said it the thought of writing a book wasn't even in his thoughts yet. This was four years ago or so. He told us in person in the store.

As for the book I am reading it now and will post my book report, as I have posted earlier, on Monday or Tuesday.


Originally posted by Wild Duck
RJ

Let's face it, most of the time it's easier to see what we want to see instead of what really may be there. Instead of fueling the fire with statements that appear to backing up the errors made by some of the other guys, shouldn't you be telling them to at least get their facts straight before jumping in?

BTW - Have you read it yet?

I am reading it now. Therw were no facts to get straight because we we were not quoting the book, rather quoting the subject himself. Mike C...the author was kind enough to call me last week after this THread was started and sent me the book to read and review.


Originally posted by Wild Duck
RJ
One more thing........(From South Bay News 2/12/2003)
Striped Bass & More Fluke and Porgy News"
"The lack of knowledge of these web sites really is amazing, but more importantly very disappointing. Message Board type-sites allow the public to post their own comments and what they've "heard" through the grapevine."

Sound familiar......BTW ..Good show today

Wild Duck-----------Over and out....:D :D :beer:

Thanks for listening to the radio show...Yes it is familiar because I wrote it! :D All those rumors about new bass reg's were wrong on the other board and IMHO board operators have a responsibility once things like that are posted to make the call and get the facts (new reg"s) straight...which is what I did:D

Please don't compare apples with oranges. The comments made by many on this board are no where near being relevant about the misguided rumors of bass reg's on other message boards.

What I posted earlier on this board about the numbers came straight from the horse's mouth and was not misquoted or heard through the grapevine.

[RJ]

Originally posted by BassSport
Boy, it is a sad day when a fellow whose credibility is questionalble at best, can offer constructive commentary on a book he has not read. Having said that let me put aside the fact that you question the catch numbers quoted in Night Tides. More importantly, you also go out of your way to insult your readership by stating it is beyond your belief that there are devoted fisherman out there who can employ both the time and acquired skills to catch numbers exceeding 1300 stripers a year by themselves.

Personally, I won't take what you said as offensive because it only illustrates to me and the rest of the readers how short you fall from being the class fisherman you acclaim to be. But I will apologize on your behalf to all the readers out there whose integrity with respect to numbers of fish caught are questioned by you.

Funny, the very same person you question once said to me, "Its the big fish in a little pond, whose ego is so big, who believes nobody can possibly catch better than they do. They're the ones who will bad mouth you the most." So what do you say Joe, "CREDIBILTY" is a very powerful word which also takes into account "CHARACTER." Maybe its time we can get your character and credibility to stand up for a change.

By the way before I forget and for the record, your comment "why is he photographed on the goose creek bridge on the wantaugh parkway when bridge fishing is totally illegal", made no sense to me.

Joe, when was fishing the bridges ever considered legal. Here is something you should remember, you too fished the bridges. Only now you say it is illegal to do so and you condemn that type of fishing! So tell me something, was it not illegal back then when you did the very same thing?

I fished with Billy for fifteen years, and I have known you basically for the same amount of time. I can vouch for what he has done, yet I can't say the same for you.

Call it Joe, its put up, or shut up time. I am sure the Greek will not have a problem meeting your challenge!

Geoff :rolleyes:

Joe never said it was legal to fish the bridge...he was questioning...has I have been...why promote something that is illegal. If Joe, BTG and you want to take the chance on getting ticketed, towed or arressted...that is what you three can or cannot decide to do. I also do not agree it is wise or prudent to promote something illegal!

We are not here to attack individuals and I will not stand for attacks...and no one here has attacked anyone...we mearly questioned the numbers which by all accuonts do sound outrageous.!

I know for a fact and have seen many of the big fish Joe has taken off the bridges and the beach. This sounds more like you have personal problem with Joe that does not belong on this board. Take it "outside" as they say in the business.

[RJ]

Bassport...where have you been?:confused: It seems like you and several others over the last few days have joined our forums just to comment on this thread. I guess the word is getting around. :D

I hope you are going to stick around and contribute over the season and are not here just to go after Joe or defend Billy as we would like all to contribute over the course of the season. :D

[RJ]

One more thing...:) Looking at the number of views we've had in the short amount of time this thread has been alive...I guess it is true controversy sells! Perhaps we have contributed to selling quite a few books? :D :D

[BassSport]

Folks...I have taken the liberty to edit this post because it has become apparently clear to me and others that Geoff has a personal grudge against cowkiller from his posts (LOL) is a close personal friend, attourney or brother in law or something of the books subject. For future reference...we do not type in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. Capital letters are Geoff's remarks and the normal typing is mine.-RJ.

QUESTIONABLE CREDIBILITY! JOE, ARE YOU DEFENDING YOURSELF? WELL LET'S SEE. I HAVE NO REASON TO BE A SORRY CAMPER NOR DO I HOLD ANY PERSONAL GRUDGES AGAINST YOU. I AM HOWEVER, DISAPPOINTED WITH THE IRRESPONSIBLE AND CARELESS EDITORIAL COMMENTS YOU POSTED.

YOU QUOTE INFORMATION FROM SOURCES THAT READ NIGHT TIDES, WHICH INCIDENTALLY TURNS OUT TO BE GROSSLY INCORRECT.

Geoff, he is not quoting information from the book because he has not read it!! He will read it when I am done with it. If you are reading the posts in this thread rather than just attacking cowkiller, you would have seen and read that already...in his post he says that! Cowkiller and I are quoting numbers the subject of the book told us in person!!!!-RJ

THE NUMBER SKILLS LESSON YOU GAVE FUNDY SEEMED TO BE SOME WHAT SKEWED. (the rest was taken out)

lkylindy already gave cowkiller a math lesson, once is enough and cowkiller has promised to get a pocket calculator -RJ

HOW ABOUT THE PICTURE YOU QUESTION AND I QUOTE "WHAT IS HE DOING WITH TWO BASS OVER HIS SHOULDERS WHEN YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED ONE". MIND YOU, IT CLEARLY STATES IN THE BOOK RIGHT UNDER THE DISCLAIMER STATEMENT THIRD PAGE IN, COVER PHOTO: "THE GREEK HEADS HOME LIFTING HIS FISH AND MIKE'S, WHO SNAPPED THE SHOT".

If you are reading the posts in this thread rather than just attacking cowkiller, you would have seen and read that already...in his first post he says that! Cowkiller and I are quoting numbers the subject of the book told us in person!!!!-RJ

BY THE WAY, WHAT IS WRONG WITH A PICTURE OF A COUPLE OF BASS CAUGHT ON A BRIDGE? I BET YOU DID THE SAME THING SOME TIME OR ANOTHER.
Unless you were there to see or photograph cowkiller keep more than one bass as per law you do not have right to accuse him of anything!!-RJ.

YOU DON'T CLAIM TO BE A CLASS FISHERMAN? GOSH THAT'S FUNNY, DON'T YOU SIGN OFF ON YOUR POSTINGS WITH "OWNER/OPERATOR OF WEST END B&T HOME OF THE 50 POUNDER". SEEMS TO ME AS THOUGH YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO MAKE THAT UNDERSTOOD.

"He has caught nine 50 pounders and I have witnessed three of them...if you believe everything in the book, why don't you believe he has caught them Geoff. AND as an advertiser of The Fishing Line he has the right to sign off as owner operator of his shop and if wants to call it that he can."-RJ

I have edited three paragraphs completely because they were personal attacks and did nothing to either defend the numbers stated in the book of Geoff's integrity.-RJ

WISHING YOU AND YOUR PATRONAGE A SOLID FISHING YEAR, WHAT EVER THAT NUMBER MAY BE!

GEOFF:D

[RJ]

Geoff...if you post a reply that again and personally attack anyone or any member of the board...no matter who they are...you are gone! :!: You have been forewarned:D

[BassSport]

We have deleted more baddSport from bassSport a.k.a. Geoff...Good bye Geoff!:!: